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IVS Forums->DVD Profiler: Feature Requests Page: 1... 3 4 5  Previous   Next
for mac (Locked)
Author Message
Stéphane
Registered: December 7, 2004
Posts: 281
Posted:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
LOL, Stephane.

The biggest single factor involved is that IVS has ONE programmer, and he simply doesn't have time to setup an Apple version and this is largely determined by Macs overall lack of market penetration. I know this is facetious, but who is going to buy it, the two Mac users in the known universe.(tongue in cheek)

Skip

I won't argue on that. There are great DVD collection applications for Mac anyway, and to quote the FAQ of the delicious library:
Quote:
Does Delicious Library run on Windows PCs?
No, it doesn't, and we don't have plans for this in the future. Delicious Library is very dependent on Mac OS X-only technologies and that is a major contributing factor to its success. Rather than porting the application to Windows or Linux, we would rather invest our time and resources in improving Delicious Library.

The same could be said of DVDProfiler....
Kerser
Registered: July 2, 2005
Posts: 16
Posted:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The biggest single factor involved is that IVS has ONE programmer, and he simply doesn't have time to setup an Apple version

If it was a full time position, maintaining a parallel Mac version shouldn’t be an unlikely scenario.
DVD Profiler is not a large application.

However, if a Mac or Linux version was in the cards, I’d expect IVS to have said something by now.
So I agree, two versions are very unlikely.

But Delphi, like the rest of Borland/InPrise/Borland/CodeGear’s development tools, is a dead end.
If IVS have long term plans with DVD Profiler, IMHO they need to consider a rewrite for some other platform.

If it’s to remain a desktop application, .NET or Java are the most likely candidates.

If it’s about choosing the most pleasant development platform, I’d pick Java with NetBeans and its very nice new GUI builder as the IDE.
You’d get multi-platform almost for free with this solution, but on Vista and some XP installations there would then be the very real problem of the user perhaps not having the Java VM installed.

With .NET there’s the problem of the .NET runtime not being pre-installed with Windows versions earlier than Vista.
The GUI builder is, in my very personal opinion, also nowhere near as nice as NetBeans’s.

Java with the SWT GUI toolkit can AFAIK be compiled to native code on Windows and Linux, but there’s no useful GUI builder for it.

In my (in this case, not so humble) opinion, Borland’s tools really are not a viable platform for future developments anymore.
Which other platform to port to depends on whether IVS’s programmer prefers C#.NET or Java, and whether the idea of supporting non-Windows platforms strikes a chord.

A third possibility, and my personal favourite, would be making DVD Profiler a web based application.
But that’s of course one heck of a redesign.


If none of this happens, and DVD Profiler remains a Win32 Delphi program, the desperate can install a Windows version of their choice and DVD Profiler under the free Qemu x86 emulator.
This runs perfectly under Linux, and most likely also BSD.
There’s also a Mac OS X port for those without Virtual PC. I don’t know how good that is, though.
lmoelleb
Can I go home now?
Registered: October 19, 2000
Posts: 1,026
Posted:
Email this user
Quoting Kerser:
Quote:
A third possibility, and my personal favourite, would be making DVD Profiler a web based application.
But that’s of course one heck of a redesign.

A web application is the right choice for a number of applications - DVD Profiler is NOT one of them.

Web Applications take significently longer to program. Even with .NET I would expect it to go up by a factor 10 (with PHP or Java it's significently more as they still use the outdated templating approach).

And obviously you can't make a web application contain the necessary features, and the usability of the features it does have would be really bad.

The best option now would be to do nothing, until Microsoft releases the next version of VS and the smart client factory for WPF. Unfortunately the current version of the development tools for WPF simply are not good enough, and it would not make sense using WinForms anymore.

Java is an alternative, but unfortunately Sun has pretty much killed it by ignoring development for many many years. They are trying to get it going again to respond to .NET, but I doubt they will pull it off. Too bad, they should have worked to maintain the lead when they had it.
/Lars

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Kerser
Registered: July 2, 2005
Posts: 16
Posted:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
And obviously you can't make a web application contain the necessary features, and the usability of the features it does have would be really bad.

Not obvious at all, IMHO.
You can do some quite surprising things with JavaScript and serverside languages.

A major redesign of the user interface would of course be needed. But that's part of the attraction for me, as I find the application itself quite a horrible experience, usability wise. I only ever used it to get at the database and export the collection.

The biggest hurdle would be how to distribute and run the application.
I wonder what a realistic subscription fee would have to be if IVS were to run one application server (cluster) for all users.

Just dreaming.

Quote:
The best option now would be to do nothing, until Microsoft releases the next version of VS and the smart client factory for WPF. Unfortunately the current version of the development tools for WPF simply are not good enough, and it would not make sense using WinForms anymore.

Eww. Oh, sorry. That was just my knee-jerk reaction to WPF (aka MS Flash).
I'm not keen on .NET in the first place. I did a partial port of a Win32 application a little larger than DVD Profiler to .NET 2.0 (C++/CLI), and was not impressed. I never went to Java because of Swing's GUI performance, but I much preferred Java's APIs and libraries to .NET. Particularly for database access and XML parsing and generation. VS 2005 wasn't too stable either, and of course Intellisense doesn't work in large C++ projects. It does in C#, though.

When Win32 dies, and we'll have to switch to .NET (or Java + Swing/SWT) for desktop development, it's entirely possible my project groups will switch to web based application development instead.
(Hopefully something not tied to Windows will fit the bill the best, so I can run the apps on my private computers as well.)
lmoelleb
Can I go home now?
Registered: October 19, 2000
Posts: 1,026
Posted:
Email this user
I can't be bothered to discuss Java/C#. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you want cross-platform then it is obviously Java, if you want good easy Windows integration it is obviously .NET. For the other libraries it is sometime one platform, other times the other - and often simply personal preference (also known as: what you learned first). A few cases have a clear winner (communication for .NET for example).

For WPF - I am not saying it is better than Flash (I have not learned it, and can't really take it serious). I'm saying it is better than WinForm, and anyone claiming otherwise knows nothing about object oriented programming. WinForm is just a thin wrapper around the native Win32 horror-storry.

And before you complain about Microsoft simply copying everyone else, maybe you should check out who actually invented the rich web application you so much prefer.
/Lars

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Kerser
Registered: July 2, 2005
Posts: 16
Posted:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
I can't be bothered to discuss Java/C#. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you want cross-platform then it is obviously Java, if you want good easy Windows integration it is obviously .NET.

Agreed.
Once you weed out the worst of the fanboys from a discussion, you're almost always left with only two issues: personal preference for a particular language or IDE, and the runtime distribution issues for specific platform versions.

I am somewhat curious as to what IVS's thoughts on a future platform for Profiler are.
Ever since I found out it ran under Qemu, I have considered returning to using DVD Profiler, but that GUI just scares the everloving daylights out of me.

Quote:
For WPF - I am not saying it is better than Flash

For the record, I'm not a Flash fan either.
Regardless of its original possibilities, ever since it started popping up everywhere it's been abused to completely mess up pages and/or circumvent pop-up blockers, so I consistently block Flash content.
WPF (or WPF/e), if it ever gets out onto the wild web, will likely suffer a similar fate.

Quote:
And before you complain about Microsoft simply copying everyone else, maybe you should check out who actually invented the rich web application you so much prefer.

How were MS first with rich web applications?
I don't know who coined the term, or that silly AJAX name, but the concepts aren't all that new, and MS have, quite understandably, not been keen on moving applications away from the desktop and their OS.
DVDoug
As seen on Slashdot...
Registered: December 8, 2001
Posts: 1,870
Posted:
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MS invented AJAX.
Doug

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lmoelleb
Can I go home now?
Registered: October 19, 2000
Posts: 1,026
Posted:
Email this user
Quoting DVDoug:
Quote:
MS invented AJAX.

Yes, but they can't be blamed for the name.

A brief history can be found on Wikipedia.
/Lars

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 Last edited: by lmoelleb
Kerser
Registered: July 2, 2005
Posts: 16
Posted:
So XMLHttpRequest originally came from a Microsoft ActiveX control? Interesting.

I did not know that.

Probably because ActiveX has always made me break out in hives.
COM alone makes me feel dirty and rush for the shower when I get home after working with that. But getting over a few hours of coercing an ActiveX component to do my bidding requires a deeper, spiritual cleansing.

That at least is something .NET has improved upon no end.


Anyway, I'd still lust after an IVS hosted, one-time fee or subscription financed, web based version of Profiler.
That way the database, where IMHO 99% of Profiler's value lies, would also be safe from prying eyes.
XML export would still be nice, though.
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