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HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray (Locked)
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Rifter
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Registered: January 27, 2002
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Quoting danio:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

As of this moment,  the BDA can say there are x amount of Blu-ray titles available.  That's one of the main reasons why they are putting out titles on 25GB discs instead of waiting 'til October (or later) for 50GB BD-ROM.  The current Blu-ray titles are still NOT sub-HD standard.  They still have 1080 lines of resolution.  The images are "soft" due to severe compression.


Yes, that may well be true but please don't forget the incorrect framing of movies released and poor print quality on a number of titles.  That's not caused by compression.  Even if they are looking to pad the shelves to claim number of titles 'out there' to buy it still criminal to push such poor presentations.

I don't think space is the issue when using VC1 codec, I'm sure you can get 4hours of HD content on a 15GB layer - thats what I read anyway.  I believe many are now waiting to see what 'Spartacus' looks like.  With a running time of 192 minutes it will test the format I'm sure.

I can't tell you what picture quality will be like in 4 months, but, we do know what it is like now; anything else is speculation and hearsay.

Quote:

Wait until you see movie titles at 20-24Mbps.  At 20Mbps, people can't really tell a difference between the disc and "the master".  HD-DVD can't even think about that until 45GB tri-layer disc comes out (that's no where in sight).  You will see problems in "the master" of the movie studios if they exist.  You can't get better than that.


HD-DVD can pump out 36Mbps can't it?  I'm not sure where the relevance of the 20-24Mbps comes in?  Sorry I may have missed your point.



Sounds to me like you pretty much "got it."  Although Ascended probably won't think so. 
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
Rifter
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Registered: January 27, 2002
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Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
You can try to justify it any way you want to, but it still won't alter the fact that there are severe problems with Blu-Ray.  All your pie-in-the-sky predictions about how good it is don't mean a thing if they can't deliver the goods.  "Soft" due to severe compression? Please.  It appears to me that one of the reasons they NEED all that extra space is because their compression algorithms SUCK! 

And please, don't dig up some article that says different.  People are watching this whole thing play out very closely.  All the web tech newsletters and outfits like Ziff-Davis are on it with microscopes, reporting every wrinkle and ripple that occurs.  Blu-Ray ain't there yet, no matter how much you wish it to be.

I thought I was having a dialog with Danio, but anyway...


No, you were telling him what to think, just like you've been doing to everybody since the gitgo.  Seems to me that everybody who has disagreed with you already has a pretty good idea of what the real picture is.

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You said the 50GB disc was "pie-in-the-sky prediction" as well.  BD-R 50GB disc are available now!  How many times can you use the old "pie in the sky" saying to numb yourself from the reality that Blu-ray is starting to come at hard and fast.  Notice how HD-DVD news has all but flat lined lately.  All they really have left to come out with their second generation HD-DVD player and a HD-DVD drive for PCs (drives have been announced long time ago but I can't find 1 on Pricewatch).  Their 2nd-Gen players will have almost the exact same abilities of the 1st.  They will have better load times.


No, they aren't available, at least not in mass produced quantities.  If the media is so good, why do I keep running across reports that say otherwise?  News hasn't flatlined either.  I see something almost every day.  People who are following this are glued to it.  Maybe if you knew something about economics you'd realize that the reason you can't find any HD-DVD units is because the demand has outstripped the supply.  That also explains why they are already bringing out a 2nd generation of product.

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You said "their" algorithms suck and that's why "they" need all that space.  It sounds like you are referring to Blu-ray and not the movie studios (in that case,that would be an uninformed statement, but I informed you of this fact in the other thread).


Well, gee whiz, what else could it be when there are reports of not being able to fit stuff onto double layer discs in Blu-Ray that fit on HD or on standard DVD?  Its getting real old hearing you wax eloquent on the benefits of Blu-Ray and how they're going to fix this and fix that, and just wait a few months and they'll blow HD out the door into the weeds.

They may very well solve the problems and get back on track.  But they haven't done so YET, and so far nobody has a solid date as to when they will.  That's what "pie in the sky" refers to.  Every day that goes by gives HD-DVD a bigger lead. 

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The majority of people are watching the format war from a distance.  I watch it up close on both sides.  That's why I'm trying to help those that don't get it to get it. If you do get that electronics keeps getting better until the specification limits are reached (and HD-DVD is already close to that limit), I will stop trying to convince you personally.  Just tell me you like to take baby steps instead of walking towards a better/more convenient future.


Stop trying to convince ALL of us!  Everybody here can read, and most of us are already following the situation closely.  We don't need you to be banging a big drum for Blu-Ray all the time.  The facts are that Blu-Ray is in second place.  I don't give a damn what its potential is, or whether its "technically" better than HD-DVD.  The facts are that HD is ahead and that 2nd generation hardware (which normally means better and more reliable) is out. 

Sales are not what either side expected, because many people ARE waiting to see how things play out, but HD is still significantly ahead in that area.

It may all be moot anyway.  Ricoh just announced a unit that will be able to read BOTH formats, plus current DVD and CD discs as well, on ONE laser.  They figured out how to alter the focus depth to read each format.  We most likely won't see any of those until Xmas at the earliest, though, and maybe not till after the start of the year.

In the meantime, if you've got something positive to say about Blu-Ray getting its problems fixed, by all means, trot it out.  But leave off the cheerleading and treating anybody who doesn't agree with you as if they are simpletons.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
Ascended_Saiyan
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Registered: July 12, 2002
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You REALLY don't have much of a clue to what's going on! Only a few true statements out of the whole post.  What a shame.
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
Overseer
Where's my damn statue?!
Registered: November 25, 2004
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Quoting danio:
Quote:
I believe many are now waiting to see what 'Spartacus' looks like.  With a running time of 192 minutes it will test the format I'm sure.

"I'm Spartacus!" 

I am snatching that bad boy up on release day even though I've already got the Criterion relase on DVD.

My player better make it here this week. 
Gotta nip it in the bud, Andy!
dkny75
Registered: April 7, 2005
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Just to clarify a point, BD-Rs are available in the U.S. now ($48 each I think) and have been available in Japan for a while now.  However, BD-ROM is what the 50GB DL discs that movies will be printed on are and they are supposedly still having problems mass manufacturing those. 

Please note I said supposedly since I don't work for Sony and this is just second-hand information that was passed onto me by some people that do.
Movie Minded
Registered: January 16, 2006
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HighDefDigest.Com just reviewed Sony's latest Blu-Ray release "Silent Hill" and needless to say they weren't too impressed with it. The link to the review is below. The ending paragrah I couldn't help but copy and paste here since it more or less summarizes the whole Blu-Ray situation.

Link to Silent Hill Review

Final Thoughts

'Silent Hill' is an intriguing 'Twilight Zone'-like, videogame/movie hybrid. It's filled with crazy imagery and powered by a fairly intriguing whodunit (or, rather, whatdunit). Granted, it is too long in runtime and too short on compelling characters, but if you're a fan of horror flicks like 'The Ring' and 'Constantine' you'll probably dig it. Alas, Sony has created another problematic Blu-ray release for the film, with a very inconsistent transfer and no extras. Quite frankly, I'm starting to feel that the Blu-ray format is just not yet ready for primetime -- at least until those BD-50, dual-layer 50Gb discs are perfected and content suppliers begin utilizing the less space-hungry VC-1 compression codec. Until then, undernourished discs like 'Silent Hill' just won't cut it.
"The Look & Sound Of Perfection"
Ascended_Saiyan
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Same thing, different movie.  I guess I can expect the same point every time a 25GB Blu-ray movie is released in MPEG-2, right?

Does this mean I can do the same thing when 50GB Blu-ray movies are released...time after time...week after week...until the end of time?  You know once 50GB BD-ROM movies are released Blu-ray will not have another lack luster movie review, ever (unless something happens to the master or something).  So, enjoy the limited time in the sun!

How about some more HD-DVD products?  Wait, no other manufacturers making products? LOL  How about the HD-DVD burners on the mass market?  Wait, can't get one.  Even if you could, why get a burner that records far less data than your competition?  The PC storage market is all but closed for HD-DVD.  The only decent chance they really have is the movie market.

That's one of the huge benefits of having over 100 companies to bring more and better products to buy.  It also drives down prices!  HD-DVD does not have this.  LG has already produced a 4x Blu-ray writer (and this is just the beginning). 

AMEX already has an affordable HTPC (home theater personal computer) that includes a Blu-ray player/single-layer burner for $2000!  It has 1.5TB of hard disc space, 4GB of RAM, a Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 2 digital tuners, Gigabit ethernet, WiFi, etc.

BTW, did you know that HD-DVD titles (GOPs - Groups of Pictures) could theoretically be coded on Blu-ray discs?  The same can not be said of the reverse.

If HD-DVD could sell 100,000 HD-DVD players with Blu-ray only at a snails pace, this might be the beginning of the end of HD-DVD (good riddance).  There are too many limitations for this format.

Stay tuned for the BDA's press conference on the 31st of this month.
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
Movie Minded
Registered: January 16, 2006
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RCA (Thomsons Electronics & GE) have a HD-DVD machine out there as well as the Toshiba players. Toshiba even has a special machine only available at Wal-Mart stores, which is something Blu-Ray does not have. Wal-Mart has said on many occasions that they will most likely only support one format in stores, with Toshiba making special machines just for Wal-Mart the odds are HD-DVD will be that format. Wal-Mart is the biggest retailer in the world, and accounts for over 27% of the DVD's sold. If Blu-Ray is not carried in Wal-Mart that will hurt them, so it doesn't matter how many companies are making machines.

You mention that HD-DVD could be re-coded for Blu-Ray but Blu-Ray can't be re-coded for HD-DVD. How about the fact Blu-Ray can't have a combo format like HD-DVD is offering.

As far as Blu-Ray burners there are only 2 on the market and they are both from Pioneer and cost $999.99. Not many people are going to sell out $1,000 for a drive when they could get a whole new computer for less than that. And each single write disc is $24, which makes it very costly to save your data. What is the point of having that much capacity if you can only write to the disc once and the disc costs $24 to boot?

HP, the second largest computer maker, is backing HD-DVD and will start releasing their drives shortly. The drives will be under $500 a piece, alot more cost affective. Along with the discs being under $10, also a lot more cost affective. And guess what, they will be rewritable, who would have thought that was possible? And as I'm sure you know HP was backing Blu-Ray in the very beginning until they became annoyed with the way the Blu-Ray Group was handling matters and not listening to them about issues they were going to have. It looks like HP knew more about the problems Blu-Ray was going to have before anyone else.

If the 50gb discs show that much improvement in quality I'll be the first to say that Blu-Ray is starting to live up to it's potential, until that time it is an unerperforming format. Are you going to say Blu-Ray's a mess if the 50gb discs do nothing for quality?

And while we're waiting for that announcement from the Blu-Ray Group, HD-DVD has already announced that their first Dual Layer/Dual Sided HD-DVD/Standard DVD Combo disc will be out in October with The Break Up. But that's because HD-DVD is nearly at it's maximum life expectancy, right?
"The Look & Sound Of Perfection"
Ascended_Saiyan
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It's painfully obvious that you didn't realize that PS3s will be sold by Wal-Mart as well!  Anyways, what is 27% from 100% equal (as if PS3s won't be sold in Wal-Mart)?  Plus, PS3s will fly off the shelves faster than standalone units during initial launch.

"You mention that HD-DVD could be re-coded for Blu-ray but Blu-ray can't be re-coded for HD-DVD. How about the fact Blu-ray can't have a combo format like HD-DVD is offering."

That is a lie!   Not only can they have a combo format (it is only a niche market anyway) but it can be on the SAME SIDE.  In order to debate properly, it is VERY important that you know exactly what the opposite side is capable of.  You are trying to defend a side when you don't fully understand either side.  This is a flawed approach. 

I spend 5 hours a day researching everything I can about these two formats.  That's why I know HD-DVD is a severely limited technology based on the old (DVD).

All new technology costs more than technology that's already been mass produced for years.  That's just a fact.  Do you remember how much DVD burners use to cost when first introduced?  It was well over $2000 (i think it was actually around $5000).  So you are telling me when it comes to PCs, you would rather have less storage?  You don't buy bigger hard drives for more space...you would buy smaller ones?

HD-DVD single-layer discs MSRP is $20  and they are only 15GB (they don't have dual-layered HD-DVD for consumers).  Which one makes more sense, $4 more dollars for 10GB more or $4 less for 10GB less space?  Actually, Blu-ray single-layer discs are $15.  SEE HERE.  You seem like you're just trying sling mud to try to win people over to HD-DVD (with almost no facts).  HD-DVD has little chance in the PC area period.  They are behind now and will always be behind in that market. 

HD-DVD 15GB single-layer MSRP.  SEE HERE.  Now moving on...

Let me get this straight.  $10 a disc (not HD-DVD MSRP but I'm playing along) for 15GB is more cost effective than $15 for 25GB?   What kind of strange cost per GB math is that?  You are just comparing the one time cost of the burners.  If you bought a few stacks of those discs, you exceed the cost difference of the burners.  The HD-DVD group is counting on some people to not do the math.

HP is not "backing HD-DVD" by itself.  HP is backing both formats. SEE HERE.  Dell sells the most PCs (compared to HP - by a wide margin), and HP and Apple are still on the BDA board of directors with Dell.

"Are you going to say Blu-Ray's a mess if the 50gb discs do nothing for quality?"

Sure I would, given the flaw in that statement to begin with (since the less you compress a picture the better the picture quality up to certain point)!

"But that's because HD-DVD is nearly at it's maximum life expectancy, right?"

Exactly, but somehow I don't think you realize that.
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
Rifter
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Registered: January 27, 2002
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
It's painfully obvious that you didn't realize that PS3s will be sold by Wal-Mart as well!  Anyways, what is 27% from 100% equal (as if PS3s won't be sold in Wal-Mart)?  Plus, PS3s will fly off the shelves faster than standalone units during initial launch.

"You mention that HD-DVD could be re-coded for Blu-ray but Blu-ray can't be re-coded for HD-DVD. How about the fact Blu-ray can't have a combo format like HD-DVD is offering."

That is a lie!   Not only can they have a combo format (it is only a niche market anyway) but it can be on the SAME SIDE.  In order to debate properly, it is VERY important that you know exactly what the opposite side is capable of.  You are trying to defend a side when you don't fully understand either side.  This is a flawed approach. 

I spend 5 hours a day researching everything I can about these two formats.  That's why I know HD-DVD is a severely limited technology based on the old (DVD).

All new technology costs more than technology that's already been mass produced for years.  That's just a fact.  Do you remember how much DVD burners use to cost when first introduced?  It was well over $2000 (i think it was actually around $5000).  So you are telling me when it comes to PCs, you would rather have less storage?  You don't buy bigger hard drives for more space...you would buy smaller ones?

HD-DVD single-layer discs MSRP is $20  and they are only 15GB (they don't have dual-layered HD-DVD for consumers).  Which one makes more sense, $4 more dollars for 10GB more or $4 less for 10GB less space?  Actually, Blu-ray single-layer discs are $15.  SEE HERE.  You seem like you're just trying sling mud to try to win people over to HD-DVD (with almost no facts).  HD-DVD has little chance in the PC area period.  They are behind now and will always be behind in that market. 

HD-DVD 15GB single-layer MSRP.  SEE HERE.  Now moving on...

Let me get this straight.  $10 a disc (not HD-DVD MSRP but I'm playing along) for 15GB is more cost effective than $15 for 25GB?   What kind of strange cost per GB math is that?  You are just comparing the one time cost of the burners.  If you bought a few stacks of those discs, you exceed the cost difference of the burners.  The HD-DVD group is counting on some people to not do the math.

HP is not "backing HD-DVD" by itself.  HP is backing both formats. SEE HERE.  Dell sells the most PCs (compared to HP - by a wide margin), and HP and Apple are still on the BDA board of directors with Dell.

"Are you going to say Blu-Ray's a mess if the 50gb discs do nothing for quality?"

Sure I would, given the flaw in that statement to begin with (since the less you compress a picture the better the picture quality up to certain point)!

"But that's because HD-DVD is nearly at it's maximum life expectancy, right?"

Exactly, but somehow I don't think you realize that.


Wipe the foam off your mouth.  You're scaring the kids.

First, you better do some math yourself.  $10 for 15G is $.67 per  gigabyte versus $15 for 25G or $.60 per gigabyte.  That's essentially meaningless.  Its within the variance you'll find just shopping different stores for the same products.  Big Whoop!

Second, how do you know HD is at its maximum limit?  You have no way of knowing that.  I've heard the same sort of arguments over the years for various types of ram, CPU dies, hard drives, ICs, even transistors back when.

Third, if you're spending five hours a day researching this stuff, it must get boring as hell reading the same crap over and over again.  All the tech stuff has been rehashed fifty times over in every venue imaginable by everybody.  The fights over standards has gotten the same treatment.  If and when anything new comes along, it gets reported in 15 tech newsletters within an hour of its release.  Btw, that news is much more up to date than what you find in the PC and multimedia mags because those publications have a 30 to 60 day publishing window.  That's why most of their articles are not particularly time sensitive, and you see phrases like "by the time you read this" and "as we go to press in (date)..."

So stop trying to impress everybody with your expertise.  You aren't any smarter than anybody else on this stuff, just more arrogant about it.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
Ascended_Saiyan
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Actually, it is $.60 per GB for Blu-ray to $1.33 per GB for HD-DVD (you and Movie-Minded must use the same math).  You say "big whoop" because you are for HD-DVD.  If it was Blu-ray on the more expensive side, you would be all over it (like the player/burner prices).  Just like Movie-Minded was trying to do.  He just didn't have his information straight.  The reasons for adopting HD-DVD for the computer market are thin at best.

"Second, how do you know HD is at its maximum limit?  You have no way of knowing that."

Again, proper research would let you know why.  I will get you started with the basics.  HD-DVD and Blu-ray are based on the same disc size as a normal DVD.  That means you have a certain amount of limited space available to write on.  Now, it's just math.  How big is your wavelength is the name of the game.  At a wavelength of 405nm, HD-DVD runs out of space to write on (even with an extra bonded layer) after about 45GB.  If you change the wavelength, then it's another format.  Therefore, that's the limit.  Blu-ray runs out of space at about 100GB because they use a shorter wavelength laser.

"If and when anything new comes along, it gets reported in 15 tech newsletters within an hour of its release."

I don't mean I research just press release information.  I'm getting deeper and deeper into the technical aspects of the technologies.  I'm looking at why transfer speed can become much faster (with low seek times) with Blu-ray than existing DVD drive technology (which HD-DVD is made from).  Why will Blu-ray manufacturing costs be less than DVD/HD-DVD after a period of time?  What are the steps one has to go through to make a DVD/HD-DVD and Blu-ray?  I research things like that.  I also keep an eye on Google News (check it out...it's great).  It gives you up to the minute news at the click of a mouse!

The people that proclaim that HD-DVD at 30 or 45GB is more than enough are guessing.  My point is that people should want to be ready for anything.  We all know about surprises popping up.  Is it better to keep 2 paychecks tucked away for rainy days, or is it better to have 12 paychecks tucked away?  Which camp is better prepared for the future?  Which camp can truly say it has a "Next-Gen" format?

"So stop trying to impress everybody with your expertise.  You aren't any smarter than anybody else on this stuff, just more arrogant about it."

Say what you want about me being arrogant, but the information I present speaks for itself!  It's funny how someone can become "arrogant" when others preconceptions get blown out of the water.

I just don't respond well when people present false information as truth (especially to an audience).   If it's just a mistake, apologize for it and move on.  Otherwise, it's manipulation through non-truths and I won't stand for it.
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
Rifter
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Registered: January 27, 2002
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Quote:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
[b]
Quote:
Actually, it is $.60 per GB for Blu-ray to $1.33 per GB for HD-DVD (you and Movie-Minded must use the same math).


Well, let's see:  You must be using the NEW math then, because when I went to school 15 divided into 10 gave .66666, or $.67 a gig if you round off to two places.  For Blu-Ray, its 25 divided into 15 for .60000, or $.60 a gig rounded to two places.

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You say "big whoop" because you are for HD-DVD.  If it was Blu-ray on the more expensive side, you would be all over it (like the player/burner prices).  Just like Movie-Minded was trying to do.  He just didn't have his information straight.  The reasons for adopting HD-DVD for the computer market are thin at best.


I said that because I don't care which one wins.  I already told you that.  But Blu-Ray has two major strikes on it at the moment: Problems with content not meeting quality expectations, and excessive cost of new hardware.  The reasons for YOU adopting HD are thin.  Seems to me most everybody else who has posted here on this has a much more realistic approach overall than you do.  And some just plain don't give a damn because they've got enough money to buy both.  I don't.  Regardless of which one wins, I won't be buying either one till prices drop to the level they are at now for regular DVD.

"Second, how do you know HD is at its maximum limit?  You have no way of knowing that."

Quote:
Again, proper research would let you know why.  I will get you started with the basics.  HD-DVD and Blu-ray are based on the same disc size as a normal DVD.  That means you have a certain amount of limited space available to write on.  Now, it's just math.  How big is your wavelength is the name of the game.  At a wavelength of 405nm, HD-DVD runs out of space to write on (even with an extra bonded layer) after about 45GB.  If you change the wavelength, then it's another format.  Therefore, that's the limit.  Blu-ray runs out of space at about 100GB because they use a shorter wavelength laser.


There are two limitations.  One is the wavelength of the laser itself, and the other is mechanical limitations that have to do with accurately tracking the data path and how close together the tracks of data can be laid down without getting crosstalk.  Blu-Ray is having problems in the mechanical area (with the 50 GB discs in particular), and also problems with compression.  HD-DVD took a more conservative approach, and that's got a good deal to do with why they are out on the market and Blu-Ray isn't.


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"If and when anything new comes along, it gets reported in 15 tech newsletters within an hour of its release."


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I don't mean I research just press release information.  I'm getting deeper and deeper into the technical aspects of the technologies.  I'm looking at why transfer speed can become much faster (with low seek times) with Blu-ray than existing DVD drive technology (which HD-DVD is made from).  Why will Blu-ray manufacturing costs be less than DVD/HD-DVD after a period of time?  What are the steps one has to go through to make a DVD/HD-DVD and Blu-ray?  I research things like that.  I also keep an eye on Google News (check it out...it's great).  It gives you up to the minute news at the click of a mouse!


Like I said, there's nothing new out there on the tech side that hasn't already been thrashed to bits.  And, while you may think Google is the cat's whiskers for news, it isn't any better than any of the dedicated tech newsletters put out by Ziff-Davis or PC-World or any other rest.  Not to mention the independents who have no allegiance to either camp.  As for knowing how they make the discs, etc., BIG DEAL.  So you know all that stuff, what's that got to do with the price of tea in Kowloon?  Are YOU going to come up with the answer to fix their problems?  Not likely.

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The people that proclaim that HD-DVD at 30 or 45GB is more than enough are guessing.



So are you, slick.  You have no more of an idea what's going to happen than I do.  All I have ever pointed out was that Blu-Ray was having problems, and that HD-DVD was already out in the market place at half the price, and with good reviews on the quality of the video.  Nobody cares how they make the damn disc, they only care if it works as advertised!!!  I have never knowingly said anything that was false, so don't even try to play that game.

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"So stop trying to impress everybody with your expertise.  You aren't any smarter than anybody else on this stuff, just more arrogant about it."


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Quote:
Say what you want about me being arrogant, but the information I present speaks for itself!  It's funny how someone can become "arrogant" when others preconceptions get blown out of the water.

I just don't respond well when people present false information as truth (especially to an audience).   If it's just a mistake, apologize for it and move on.  Otherwise, it's manipulation through non-truths and I won't stand for it.



I haven't posted anything that is wrong.  Just stuff YOU don't agree with.  Tough.  You'll just have to pardon me if I put more reliance in data provided by professionals instead of you.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
Ascended_Saiyan
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Registered: July 12, 2002
Posts: 781
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I'm sure most of the people on here, that is strong in basic math, knows you are dead wrong on your math.  Apparently, you do your math like you defend your choice of format...poorly.  I will try to help you to see the error in your equation.  Since you are trying to find the price per GB, you divide the price by the amount of GB.  Ex. $20 divided by 15GB.  The equation should be presented as follows: $20 / 15GB = $1.33 per GB for HD-DVD.  Your flaw should have been easily recognized.  If HD-DVD discs were priced at $15 for 15GB it would have been $1 per GB.  But, HD-DVD is MORE than $15 per disc, therefore the cost per GB automatically has to be more than $1 per GB.  Do you understand your mistake now?

Sure you don't care which format wins.  Sorry If I don't believe you.  If someone really didn't care, it seems like they would not try to make an equation work in their favor.  They would not make comments without presenting evidence to support their claims.  You seem to be holding on incorrect knowledge.  A lot of the information you present can easily be proven wrong with a quick internet search.  So, why do you do it?  It seems like you won't accept anything but what you want to be true.

Please tell me WHAT problem(s) Blu-ray is having with compression.  I would like to have specifics.  I want to see where you are going with this.  More specifically, I want to know if you know where you're going with this.

"One is the wavelength of the laser itself, and the other is mechanical limitations that have to do with accurately tracking the data path and how close together the tracks of data can be laid down without getting crosstalk."

In simpler terms (like I said in my previous post), HD-DVD runs out of space at 45GB.  So, I guess you said that to reinforce my previous post?  BTW the particular type of discs they WERE having trouble with WAS the 50GB BD-ROMs.  Look at this link.  The 50GB BD-Rs had no problems, if I recall correctly.

"And, while you may think Google is the cat's whiskers for news, it isn't any better than any of the dedicated tech newsletters put out by Ziff-Davis or PC-World or any other rest."

You obviously don't keep in touch with things.  Google News posts Ziff-Davis, PC World, and a ton of others reporting companies in one location.  Try it some time.  It might help you a little.

I won't waste anymore time answering  off the wall statements.  Class is closed for today concerning Rifter.
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
Ascended_Saiyan
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Also, Warner Bros. will start releasing titles in VC-1 for Blu-ray.  Read about this here.  
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
Overseer
Where's my damn statue?!
Registered: November 25, 2004
Posts: 1,041
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Interesting comments at The Digital Bits for 25 Aug:
Quote:
That's a very cool development, I'll tell you. I'm somewhat surprised to find myself saying this, but HD-DVD is quietly making Blu-ray Disc look pretty silly. Motivated as I've been by a desire to see this format war end quickly, I was quick to sing the potential praises of Blu-ray Disc early on, simply because it seemed to have the clear advantages of better technology and much broader studio support, plus the potential market-share dominance of the forthcoming PS3 game system. And to be honest, my very early experiences with HD-DVD were disappointing. Since that time, however, an interesting this has happened... the early Blu-ray experience has turned out to be pretty lackluster too. Discs have looked bad, the Samsung player is a disaster and Sony's over-priced the PS3 right out of the market (you'll be able to buy both an Xbox 360 AND a Nintendo Wii for the price of a PS3). Sony and their BD camp allies are just not delivering on the promise of their format - period. Meanwhile, HD-DVD software and Toshiba's hardware (via these firmware updates) just keeps getting better and better. And get this: Sony STILL can't get their 50GB dual-layered Blu-ray Discs to work right on the existing and prototype players. The current Samsung player, as shipped, will not play them. How do you like them apples? Ouch.

If the BD camp doesn't do something dramatic and fast... they will have lost the hearts and minds of the early adopters to HD-DVD. To my thinking at least, HD-DVD is looking better and better all the time... and it seems to me it's now the format to beat.
Gotta nip it in the bud, Andy!
Ascended_Saiyan
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"...pretty lackluster too. Discs have looked bad, the Samsung player is a disaster..."

That is an opinion.  The movie and product reviewers have no clue if it is the player or the movies.  The only known issue the Samsung player HAD was a chipset being enabled upon initial product release.  That has been corrected some time ago.

BTW, an objective reviewer would have said that they don't know if the movie images were soft at the time of review because of the player or the movie.  Therefore, this is not objective reviewing and has no merit.

"...Sony's over-priced the PS3 right out of the market (you'll be able to buy both an Xbox 360 AND a Nintendo Wii for the price of a PS3)."

This is another lie.  Xbox 360 is $400 ($300 Core is almost useless without a hard drive for Xbox Live...so you must select the premium edition to save yourself money).  The Wii could be anywhere between $179 and $225.  $400 + $179=$579 minimum.  PS3 is $500 (with still much more features than the Xbox 360 Premium edition + $200 HD-DVD add-on).  How could people with common sense think that $500 is overpriced?  If you say $80 is not much difference, then that thinking must be applied to the difference in price between the $400 Xbox and the $500 PS3.

Here is the link again!

50GB BD-ROM movies with VC-1 compression are coming from at least Warner Bros soon.  Can you feel that?  I think you can.  It won't be long now!  
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second." - Beca Lewis Allen

"Anyone buying into HD-DVD at this point is just buying tickets to get on The Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. At least they'll enjoy the music while the ship sinks."-blitz6speed
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