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Should we be thinking of alternatives? (Locked)
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DJ Doena
Nickname since 1994
Registered: May 1, 2002
Posts: 1,092
Posted:
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I am a temporary pirate and I stand to it.

In my ~700 DVD collection is one copy of a movie I could not find anywhere legitimately. There are no bootlegs that I'm aware of, but I am no bootleg expert (I often buy DVDs on DVD exchanges).

On the other hand I have several seasons of downloaded TV shows on my harddisc that are waiting to be replaced by DVD box sets, e.g. Lost season 3, 24 season 6, Heroes season 1.

I'm to impatient to wait until this stuff is shown here in europe. Therfore once a week I set anchor in the pirate bay.
Karsten
A Programmer's Guide: "to be OR not to be" is always TRUE and will be removed by the compiler.
Rifter
Freedom is not free!
Registered: January 27, 2002
Posts: 3,169
Posted:
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
I made my apologies to those who felt insulted and I explained what I meant, get over it guys.  If you want to read a forum when there's people from all over the world, you're also gonna have to accept that they are not all native english speaking people and that sometimes sentences maybe be written as they should

Bottom line is, if you don't own pirated dvd's then there's not need to be insulted because i wasn't taliking about you....for the others....if the hat fits wear it.


Yup, he apologized and I accept that.

I'll fess up: I own what appears to be a pirated DVD. I purchased what (at the time) appeared to be a legal Asian DVD of "Song of the South" from a Canadian dealer on eBay. A day after I bought it (there were 20 available at a Buy It Now price and at least five were sold), ebay shut down the listing. PayPal had already sent my money to the dealer. I emailed the dealer and got no response, so I was ready to dispute the charges with PayPal. But within two days, I had the DVD. So I don't know if it was a legit Asian (Hong Kong) version of Song of the South or a bootleg one. My assumption is that it is a pirate. But I'll watch it (the damage I've caused has been done) until Disney releases a USA version, or I find a legal Asian copy of the DVD, because I know Disney has licensed the film to a few Asian DVD companies.

I find it hilarious that until I bought this DVD, my 16-year-old daughter had never seen Song of the South but Splash Mountain was (and is) her favorite ride at Disneyland. Nice ride, with no context for anyone other than those of us older than 40 or so.

So out of my 1955 DVDs, one (most likely) is pirated. But I even have a PayPal receipt through eBay for it... (which does not disqualify it from being a illegal copy).


That's not the same thing, Vibro.  You bought that DVD in good faith.  From what I could tell, the person in question knowingly bought pirated DVDs and admits that he did so deliberately.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
Unicus69
Alien with an attitude
Registered: May 8, 2001
Posts: 3,050
Posted:
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
I find it hilarious that until I bought this DVD, my 16-year-old daughter had never seen Song of the South but Splash Mountain was (and is) her favorite ride at Disneyland. Nice ride, with no context for anyone other than those of us older than 40 or so.


I hear you.  I try and explain it to my kids and it doesn't do the film justice.  One of my all time favorite films that hasn't been released because of political correctness gone wild.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
skipnet50
It all began with a mouse
Registered: October 4, 2000
Posts: 33,731
Posted:
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
I made my apologies to those who felt insulted and I explained what I meant, get over it guys.  If you want to read a forum when there's people from all over the world, you're also gonna have to accept that they are not all native english speaking people and that sometimes sentences maybe be written as they should

Bottom line is, if you don't own pirated dvd's then there's not need to be insulted because i wasn't taliking about you....for the others....if the hat fits wear it.


Yup, he apologized and I accept that.

I'll fess up: I own what appears to be a pirated DVD. I purchased what (at the time) appeared to be a legal Asian DVD of "Song of the South" from a Canadian dealer on eBay. A day after I bought it (there were 20 available at a Buy It Now price and at least five were sold), ebay shut down the listing. PayPal had already sent my money to the dealer. I emailed the dealer and got no response, so I was ready to dispute the charges with PayPal. But within two days, I had the DVD. So I don't know if it was a legit Asian (Hong Kong) version of Song of the South or a bootleg one. My assumption is that it is a pirate. But I'll watch it (the damage I've caused has been done) until Disney releases a USA version, or I find a legal Asian copy of the DVD, because I know Disney has licensed the film to a few Asian DVD companies.

I find it hilarious that until I bought this DVD, my 16-year-old daughter had never seen Song of the South but Splash Mountain was (and is) her favorite ride at Disneyland. Nice ride, with no context for anyone other than those of us older than 40 or so.

So out of my 1955 DVDs, one (most likely) is pirated. But I even have a PayPal receipt through eBay for it... (which does not disqualify it from being a illegal copy).



On the bad side, Cliff SoS is very definitely a boot, the film has NEVER been released on DVD anywhere in the world. The copy you have was taken was from a Japanese Laserdisc which was last release of the film. It is currently on total moratorium, courtesy of one Michael Eisner, due to its ummmmmm "political correctness". That said , take heart, Roy Disney believes  it is one of Walt's true masterpieces and is pushing very hard to have it . Rumor has it we could see it for Xmas 2007, or sometime in 2008.

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Rifter
Freedom is not free!
Registered: January 27, 2002
Posts: 3,169
Posted:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
I made my apologies to those who felt insulted and I explained what I meant, get over it guys.  If you want to read a forum when there's people from all over the world, you're also gonna have to accept that they are not all native english speaking people and that sometimes sentences maybe be written as they should

Bottom line is, if you don't own pirated dvd's then there's not need to be insulted because i wasn't taliking about you....for the others....if the hat fits wear it.


Yup, he apologized and I accept that.

I'll fess up: I own what appears to be a pirated DVD. I purchased what (at the time) appeared to be a legal Asian DVD of "Song of the South" from a Canadian dealer on eBay. A day after I bought it (there were 20 available at a Buy It Now price and at least five were sold), ebay shut down the listing. PayPal had already sent my money to the dealer. I emailed the dealer and got no response, so I was ready to dispute the charges with PayPal. But within two days, I had the DVD. So I don't know if it was a legit Asian (Hong Kong) version of Song of the South or a bootleg one. My assumption is that it is a pirate. But I'll watch it (the damage I've caused has been done) until Disney releases a USA version, or I find a legal Asian copy of the DVD, because I know Disney has licensed the film to a few Asian DVD companies.

I find it hilarious that until I bought this DVD, my 16-year-old daughter had never seen Song of the South but Splash Mountain was (and is) her favorite ride at Disneyland. Nice ride, with no context for anyone other than those of us older than 40 or so.

So out of my 1955 DVDs, one (most likely) is pirated. But I even have a PayPal receipt through eBay for it... (which does not disqualify it from being a illegal copy).



On the bad side, Cliff SoS is very definitely a boot, the film has NEVER been released on DVD anywhere in the world. The copy you have was taken was from a Japanese Laserdisc which was last release of the film. It is currently on total moratorium, courtesy of one Michael Eisner, due to its ummmmmm "political correctness". That said , take heart, Roy Disney believes  it is one of Walt's true masterpieces and is pushing very hard to have it . Rumor has it we could see it for Xmas 2007, or sometime in 2008.

Skip


Man, that's good to hear!  Suppressing something like this because people today are too damn stupid to understand it in context, and to see that its classic literature is criminal.  It ranks right up there with book burning and forcing books off library shelves because it offends some brain-dead twit.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!"  Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964.

My Blog: Mad Gorilla's Jungle
skipnet50
It all began with a mouse
Registered: October 4, 2000
Posts: 33,731
Posted:
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God forbid we should offend brain dead twits. thankfully, we have none of those here.      

I am still searching the US Constitution to find where we have a right to not be offended.

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FunkyLA
Will you remove your hat?
Registered: July 27, 2004
Posts: 377
Posted:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I am still searching the US Constitution to find where we have a right to not be offended.

Skip

It is in the "hidden" small print....

Under the part about "When Queen Elizabetrh II visits Kentucky to goto the races, the USA will look at her son and think... hummm"



(Now, I wonder... is that treasion?)
Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast
VibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: August 19, 2002
Posts: 1,335
Posted:
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It was a business decision by Disney, pure and simple. Song of the South was shown regularly as part of Disney's normal schedule. Every year, certain classic Disney features would be rereleased to theaters... Dumbo, Pinocchio, Fantasia, Peter Pan, Snow White, etc. would enter into a rotation of rerelease. I saw Song of the South in a theater when I was a child, yet I was born four years after its first release.

Then the NAACP and members of Congress called the film's premise racist, with its depiction of ex-slaves acting like their reconstruction lives were "satisfactual". After 1988, the film was permanently withdrawn from distribution in the USA.

Hypocritically, Disney continued to release the film in theaters, on VHS, on Laserdisc, etc. in Asia. I believed this included DVDs, because there are many Asian DVDs (some with UPCs, others without) available: Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwain, etc. I thought I was buying an legal DVD licensed through Hong Kong from a Canadian importer.

The film is not a fair depiction of post Civil War southern Black lives. But Disney, through the Walt Disney Treasures series, has releases various racist cartoons from earlier in the 20th Century, always surrounded by commentary by Leonard Maltin explaining the context, and the current regrets for Disney. Historically, I think this is reasonable. I think it does no child (regardless of race or color) harm to understand that racism was once part of mainstream American culture -- that even big companies like Disney would reveal this racism without hesitation (prior to Brown vs. the Board of Education, Rosa Parks, etc.). To witness the past is to avoid repeating its errors, and better understanding of the present -- because racism is not dead -- it's just moved into hiding. The less we hide our previous blatant racism, the easier it is to work towards a more tolerant attitude. Racism is learned behavior, inherited from our elders. Hiding past transgressions stops us from understanding just how evil it is.

THey was talk of releasing a Song of the South DVD in 2006, on its 40th anniversary. Talk of releasing it now is just hope. It is, far and away, the most requested Disney DVD. As much as I know, Disney often fails to answer requests for its release, and if it does answer a politely worded request, it merely states that Song of the South currently is not on any release schedule.

I do hope Roy Disney sees the eventual American release of this film, with historic and contemporary commentary, on DVD.
.

Cliff


Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. -- Pete Seeger
 Last edited: by VibroCount
maxmcleod
I Win!
Registered: February 25, 2007
Posts: 65
Posted:
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
I am a temporary pirate and I stand to it.

In my ~700 DVD collection is one copy of a movie I could not find anywhere legitimately. There are no bootlegs that I'm aware of, but I am no bootleg expert (I often buy DVDs on DVD exchanges).

On the other hand I have several seasons of downloaded TV shows on my harddisc that are waiting to be replaced by DVD box sets, e.g. Lost season 3, 24 season 6, Heroes season 1.

I'm to impatient to wait until this stuff is shown here in europe. Therfore once a week I set anchor in the pirate bay.


out of curiousity what dvd could you not find legitimately?
_______________________________________________________________________
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Crush your enemies, see the driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.
69SAMAEL69
Member
Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 50
Posted:
In all honestly, I have not downloaded a movie in years.  I freely admit I used to, but have long since found the err of my ways.  I felt we needed a diversion from the various Invelos v. IVS discussions...it's kind of depressing.  I knew copyright and piracy would stir up such a discussion.  I rather enjoyed reading everyone's point of view on the subject.

The Salo pirate stands as my only pirate DVD that I know of and I will replace it when it's re-released.  ALL others are original retail disks.

As an aside, the legislation I had mentioned is an amendment to US copyright law called the Berne Act.

http://www.videoscreams.com/MembershipPolicies.htm

"Video Screams is not considered a pirate operation because the section of American copyright knows as the “Berne Act” clearly states that films unreleased in the U.S., including original versions of films altered and/or edited for release in the U.S., are not protected by American copyright. Thus, they are considered public domain or master prints that originate from sources outside the U.S. and are not subject to the jurisdiction of American copyright laws."

Like I say, I was just looking to stir up a discussion other than the problems with DVDP.  My apologies if I stomped on anyones sensibilities and for getting everyone all fired up, but it really was a nice diversion and I think a good discussion...even if I took the brunt of the criticism

Cheers,
Rob
The DvDz
 Last edited: by 69SAMAEL69
VinnyP
Average sized member
Registered: September 14, 2000
Posts: 103
Posted:
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Quoting Lithurge:
Quote:
I don't think lack of availability would stand up in court if one of the copyright holders prosecuted you.


I don't have pirate DVDs on principal. It's not an offence to possess them in the UK only to possess to distribute for gain. Is that different where you are?
Vincent S Philpott
psklenar
Premium since 2001
Registered: January 4, 2001
Posts: 19
Posted:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
... The copy you have was taken was from a Japanese Laserdisc which was last release of the film. It is currently on total moratorium, ...


And this is why I still have a working LD player.
pat----
skipnet50
It all began with a mouse
Registered: October 4, 2000
Posts: 33,731
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Vinny:

In the US it is illegal to posses stolen goods (in this case pirated), so the owner is of said pirated is just as liable as the seller. Though what ususally happens is the owner is leveraged against the seller/distributor.What people don't realize is that there is a two step process involved. The criminal penalty is $250,000 and/or five years for each such violation. Then there is the civil phase and Hollywood will swoop in and sue the convicted.

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Najemikon
Member
Registered: December 28, 2000
Posts: 1,866
Posted:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:

If you get the impression i have zero tolerance for such behavior, regardless of the excuse, you would be absolutely CORRECT. I suggest you say NO MORE about this matter. I can only hope that both the authorities in Washington and Hollywood will track you doiwn and make you pay for your crime.

Skip


Would they actually bother? I used to think the same way, but here in the UK I've seen umpteen examples of where the authorities simply don't give a damn.

Not far from me, a retired policeman of all people was one of several people arrested for selling copies. His stock was apparently one of the largest in Europe. It was destroyed as you'd expect, but charges? None.

I also knew of someone who could import hundreds of pirate DVDs. I asked him how could he possibly get them through customs. He did have several shipments seized, but he'd just get a polite letter from customs apologising for the inconvenience! Even though you would have to be a first class twit not to realise he was selling them on, he actually got an apology. At which point he would reorder his stock.

The only active work against copying that seems to go on, is those  insulting ads you can't skip on a DVD you bought costing £15. Really, who do they think they are talking to? People who care paid the money already. People who don't care probably won't see the ad and would laugh if they did.

I also love the ads that focus on how much worse the quality is on pirated material. Who are they kidding? A DVD can be copied with no loss of quality.

Attacking the innocent and ignorant, and allowing pirates to operate with little interference will never solve this problem.
Jon

"You ever see a cat return a stick? Hey man, you threw the stick, you go get it yourself, I'm busy. If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
C.M.O.T
skipnet50
It all began with a mouse
Registered: October 4, 2000
Posts: 33,731
Posted:
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Quoting Najemikon:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:

If you get the impression i have zero tolerance for such behavior, regardless of the excuse, you would be absolutely CORRECT. I suggest you say NO MORE about this matter. I can only hope that both the authorities in Washington and Hollywood will track you doiwn and make you pay for your crime.

Skip


Would they actually bother? I used to think the same way, but here in the UK I've seen umpteen examples of where the authorities simply don't give a damn.

Not far from me, a retired policeman of all people was one of several people arrested for selling copies. His stock was apparently one of the largest in Europe. It was destroyed as you'd expect, but charges? None.

I also knew of someone who could import hundreds of pirate DVDs. I asked him how could he possibly get them through customs. He did have several shipments seized, but he'd just get a polite letter from customs apologising for the inconvenience! Even though you would have to be a first class twit not to realise he was selling them on, he actually got an apology. At which point he would reorder his stock.

The only active work against copying that seems to go on, is those  insulting ads you can't skip on a DVD you bought costing £15. Really, who do they think they are talking to? People who care paid the money already. People who don't care probably won't see the ad and would laugh if they did.

I also love the ads that focus on how much worse the quality is on pirated material. Who are they kidding? A DVD can be copied with no loss of quality.

Attacking the innocent and ignorant, and allowing pirates to operate with little interference will never solve this problem.


Yes, they will but not as forcefully as they should.

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wavemaster2
Registered: February 26, 2006
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quoting FunkyLA:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I am still searching the US Constitution to find where we have a right to not be offended.

Skip

It is in the "hidden" small print....

Under the part about "When Queen Elizabetrh II visits Kentucky to goto the races, the USA will look at her son and think... hummm"





I heard she was there to see Camilla who was in the race.
[br][br]
 Last edited: by wavemaster2
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